The Customer Journey: A Holistic Approach to Email Marketing

Summary in Bullet Points

  • The subject line of an email has a direct impact on whether it will be opened and read.
  • Testing subject lines based on open rates alone may result in optimizing for the wrong goal.
  • Holistic email marketing takes a consumer-centric approach and focuses on delivering results and meeting the needs of the customer.
  • Be specific in your marketing messages to attract the right audience and increase conversions.
  • Don’t be afraid to engage with inactive subscribers as they may become active customers in the future.
  • Seek resources and professional help, such as reading books, articles, and consulting services, to improve your email marketing strategies.


Kath Pay

Holistic Email Marketing

[email protected]

+44 (0) 203 015 0747


It seems to be logical, right? Because we know that the subject line directly impacts whether someone’s going to open an eyeball and read that email. So we go, okay, we want to actually, that’s the metric we wanna be testing. But if you go in and have a look and, hey, this is, I call it the litmus test. Yes.

Go to your database, choose that, find the top 10 campaigns based on open mate. Then go find the top 10 campaigns based off the crate. Then go find the top 10 campaigns based on conversion. And you’re gonna see there’s a very little overlap between the three of them, which means interesting. You are testing your subject lines based on open mates who are probably optimizing for the wrong whistle.

Hi, and welcome to the 91 Day Success Podcast. I’m Jonathan, and I am so honored and privileged today to have Kath pay with me from holistic email marketing. Holistic email marketing is based out of London and Kath and her team serve clients throughout Europe and North America. And I’m really excited today to dig into cast’s book.

Grab it right here, holistic email marketing and learn cast perspective. On how we should be doing email and all that. But before we dig into all that, Kath, if you would, could you give us a 32nd elevator pitch of who you are and how you got into the email marketing business and consulting? Yeah, absolutely.

And lovely to be here. Thanks very much for having me on, John. Thank you.

24 years ago, I actually I was a web designer and I had my own web design business in Australia. I’m originally Australian, and one of my developers came and said, Hey, listen, I think this could be something. Anyhow, it turned out it was a nucleus of an email service provider program, so we were one of the earliest email service providers out there, like E S P, and then we came over to England and then brought it over to England, and then I decided, you know what?

Michael, being for SASS is fun and all the rest of it. I wanna consult everything. My day got exciting when I got to actually speak to my customers and to help them resolve issues and so went Hello? Yeah, so I think, oh, I dunno, 14 years ago or so, I turned into being a consultant, one of the original consultants.

I think as far as email marking goes. And I haven’t looked back. So I still love helping my cl my clients and actually beyond. That’s why I do a lot of writing. I wrote a book, all of that, trying to help marketers, even if they’re not my direct clients. I can speak for one and say I found the book to be very enlightening and had some tremendous recommendations in there.

And as a digital marketer, I’ve read lots and lots of stuff on email marketing. And I really appreciated your perspective on how you did things, and we’ll talk about the book here in just a minute. But tell us if you would, a little bit on our audience, what inspired you to write a book about holistic email marketing and how do you really see Kath that’s different or maybe set apart from some of the other email marketing books that are out there on the marketplace today?

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let’s do them. Where you first, the books that are out in the market today, there’s some amazing books happening. They’re very tactically led. They’re very setting you up, always step by step. So they’re fantastic. Where my book starts and takes you on is beyond that, right? So it’s repeat the basics, let’s put it all together and actually explain to you why.

Let’s really, okay, you’re starting, you are actually thinking that you’re starting up at stage one, but you’re actually starting at stage four. You actually gotta do these other three stages, which is like writing the strategy, really planning it out and everything like that. Most people start with, oh, let’s go and build a marketing automation program.

That kind absolutely that’re starting at the wrong place. So there’s, I left out one little intro bio thing that for 12, 14 years, I think it was over 12 years, I was the head Elam marketing trainer. In England. So I trained for all of the big entities there, publishers, all the rest of it. Email marketing, including the dma, I did that, the DMA and the idm, which are now together, but the IDM award and everything.

So through all of this, I started to see that there’s a lot of areas that we as email marketers are underpaid. Underappreciated, undervalue, overworked, and all the rest of it. So what happens is I email actors tend to latch onto what they see of being a silver bullet, right? And that’s really important because it’s trying to save them time.

It’s trying to make sure that they’re getting really good results, but doing it easily. But there is a lot of bad advice out there. There’s a lot of wrong advice out there. There’s a lot of archaic. Advice out there. Something that worked back then, but it doesn’t work now. So what happened, and I’m not blaming the marketers for doing this, but that’s what they tend to do that.

So I could see people are doing things their own way and they’re not, unlike, Misha’s had 24 years of being able to think about email block. And to be able to see how the consumers have changed and how email marketing itself has changed. I’ve been able to put all that together and go, okay, this, we’re going at it the wrong way because it, okay.

Again, I don’t wanna bag up the s esp, they’re doing a great job facing Sure. All the rest of it, but, and they do their best to train us and that, to be honest, is the main way that most of us learn is from our tech provider. And then speaking from their perspective as a tech provider, which is all, which is basically delivers the tactics.

So that’s why we tend to be so tactically based rather than in a mi normal marketing channel would be more strategic based. And then we use the tactics to carry out the strategy. So what ends up happening then is that we’re actually coming at it from the wrong way. We’re. There’s lots of wrong things that we are doing currently.

And so I guess the book was, I’ve been speaking about all of these things for many years, writing about them, working with my clients, using them with my clients and everything. And then finally everyone kept saying, you should be writing a book. Should write a book. So I did. Hoping it’s gonna get further reach than I would normally get anyhow, in order because.

My heart has always been one for the marketer, two for the consumer, three for the businesses two. So I’ve got a heart for all three and I want them to all work out really well. So one of the things we, as I need to do is teach the marketers how to do a better job. So that email marketing is actually still a, their favorite channel of the consumer.

And it is, and it has been for ages, and we have to keep it that way. And the only way we can do that is by doing a good job, which means that sometimes we have to, I talk a lot in the book about reframing, repositioning, reading. Yeah. Your mindset really. And that’s just changing what you’ve taken for granted.

But because you’ve read it so many times, but it’s not actually the best thing to do. And then I always. Not preface, but basically end everything with test it. Absolutely. No, so true. One of the things I know I really appreciated in your book was your focus on customer-centric focus and making sure that you’re focused on what that customer needs, and I think that’s one of the things that’s changed over the years.

From your perspective, Kath, as you’ve been involved in the industry, what are some of the key trends and changes that you’ve observed? Maybe some of our audience who are entrepreneurs and business leaders. Business owners, yeah. Maybe things they’re not aware of other than obviously being customer focused and testing to very important things.

What are some trends that you have seen are changing from maybe five or 10 years ago when a lot of our audience started learning about digital email marketing? Yes. Yeah. No, and I just realized, I’ve forgot to answer the first question too, but that hides in this. So let me give you examples. What, 10 years or more ago I coined, I created the holistic email marketing approach.

Okay. And I did that Out of this trend, I saw there was this trend, a very distinct trend. You probably would remember it cause everyone in digital marketing succumbed to it. And we’re all talking about multi-channel and Oh yes. Omnichannel, we have to bring it all together. We have to make it all the channels work together, and it was a great desire.

It was a great plan. We started at it from the wrong place, right? Again, we started out from the technical perspective. We didn’t start at it from the consumer’s perspective. So what we are doing is straight away, we’re walking. We’re trying to work this out from our brand centric approach. How do we make our channels work together for us?

Oh, and the consumer, right? Whereas absolutely where, so I went, we’re doing it the wrong way. And if we, and so once we start talking about and focusing on multichannel, what are you thinking about? Straight away you’re thinking about connecting APIs, processes. You are thinking, oh, I just had a few more, but that’s okay.

On about new and making it right. All I can connect and everything. Hi, this where cuz I’m from Australia. So there we have holistic medicine is very prominent. So I’ve been brought up with the holistic approach and the holistic as far as medicine goes. And that is when you know they’re looking to your eyes and they’ll say, okay, you’ve got a problem with your kidney and things.

They’re looking at your whole body. They don’t just look at, oh, you’ve got a pain in your back. They look everywhere to diagnose and to. Because your body is telling you, even if the actual area is a problematic, you’ve got a problem elsewhere. It’s still telling you that. So I just went, that’s what we have to do.

We have to look at the consumer, we have to look at them. We have to look at their needs, and we then need what’s what. Once we start focusing on them and we’re taking that sort of approach, then we can bring everything in that holistic approach, that holistic way. Where all the channels are talking to each other, but they’re talking to each other from the perspective of the consumer.

So now we are going to do exactly the same thing as what we were doing before, but we’ve got a different focus. We’re starting at a different place, and we’re looking at consumer and how we can make it work for her because this is the big catch, right? If we as marketers can deliver the result. To our customers.

Now think about our customers are our customers cause they want something or our prospects are because that you’ve got an interesting offer or they’ve seen some sort of marketing or advertising of yours or so on, right? So they have a need that they’re interested in or they’ve already bought from you.

So what if you can achieve their desire, their objective, the reason why they’re count onto your list? Then do you know what. You by default are achieving your, so it’s a lot easier to give, to help to enable the consumer to achieve their result, their desires, their objectives, than for you to be pushy and selling and everything.

That’s a hard way of doing it. So it’s about looking at the consumer and then bringing in the channel so that they’re giving that lovely, holistic customer experience. Does that make sense? It does. And I actually really appreciate your analogy to the holistic medicine and understanding that. I think it really helps understand how you’re looking in email marketing and carrying that on through.

And I, I couldn’t agree with you more on what you’re saying, Kath. It’s so important that we focus on the customer journey and what they’re, what’s in it for them. And if we do those groups, people, individuals that we’re gonna help as a business will naturally be attracted to. Excuse me, be attracted to what we’re doing, and as a result, are gonna build our business and we’re going to have the results we wanted by focusing on the end users.

Absolutely. Exactly. Great advice. So talk to me, one of the things I hear from a lot of business owners nowadays is, Jonathan, with all the things going on in social media and everything else, all the other digital marketing channels, we talked a little bit about omnipresence and all that. Why should I care about email marketing?

I’ve got my thoughts on it, but I’d love to hear your thoughts, Kath, as to why is email marketing still so incredibly important when it comes to digital marketing and businesses getting in front of their customers? I know, and this is one of the reasons why I’m still in love with email after 24 years, it is constantly evolving.

Everyone says our email hasn’t changed, but of course it has changed. Cause if, cause we are a push channel, right? That means that, yes. We’re not waiting for our audience to come to us. We’re pushing our messages to them. So we have to be responsive to what they’re doing. And so we are continually optimizing and changing, and the consumers are changing their expectations of us.

They’re actually demanding a few things, and trends happen and all. And sometimes the trends are most likely they’re not gonna be started by us, the market. They’re actually started by the consumer, but we are ever evolving. We are a very cost effective channel. We are the, like I said, push channel, but with the original push channel as well.

It’s, and IT survey after survey and new surveys just come out called the DMA in the uk. They’ve got a consumer tracker study and they’ve gone an our consumers all these amazing questions and it’s come out that absolutely emails their favorite channel to be getting their offers. Be getting their confirmation emails to be getting all of those good things right.

They look to email for that. They take it seriously, and so we need to take it seriously and it delivers it. You’ll near this stat time and time again, both the two DMAs do it in the UK and the US or now a and r in the us and they come out with the return on investment. Something like, I think in the UK it’s like 43 pound for every pound spent.

So you get amazing return investment, but that’s also because it is that push channel. It’s also in this ous world or cookie, soon to be world, right? You’ve got that unique ID and you’ve got the ability to be personalizing, to be sending them meaningful E, even if you don’t have that much information on them.

You can be personalizing them by sending them that abandoned cart email, which most providers will do quite easily with their items, that they’re looked at the right time. And that makes it innately like incredibly personal to them. So email has so many strengths. And I think that’s one of the, and basically the consumers have voted and they’ve been voting for many years.

We did go through, That challenge with email being spam. Oh, you are that spammer, right? Yes. But now you don’t hear that because the ISPs are dealing really well with true spam. And then most female marketers want to do a really good job and businesses want to do a good job, so they are staying legal and try to follow as many best PR as possible.

So all of that means that we are trying to do goodbye at the consumer. And the consumer then is also rewarding us by clicking and converting, right? Absolutely. No, and I, here in the US it’s the same thing. I don’t pay as close attention as you do, obviously to the marketing associations, but I’ve, we’ve been in that 40 to one return for the longest time here.

As almost as long as I can remember. I founded our agency 13 years ago and I believe it was in the 38 to one return then. So we’ve really, it’s amazing how email has held that consistent return on investment for really over a decade. Yes. And that’s just, I think that speaks to the strength, as you mentioned of that pushability, to get your message in front of clients that wanted to read it.

And the ability to personalize it so that you can time it and categorize it to what they’re looking for. Yeah, great answer. Yes. And if you think about it, email is an amazing nudge channel as well. So if you want to get the same as a billboard thing, right? So you got of billboard every morning, Susie leaves at her house and straight opposite her as this huge big billboard.

And every day the sign changes and it’s a different brand and everything. What is she most likely going to be doing when she’s going out shopping? She’s probably gonna be gravitating to those brands, or if they rotate and everything. It’s within the front of mine. Now. Emails the same. Even if they go through and they delete, and again, this tracker study shows steps like that.

Even if they go through and they delete the email, they don’t actually open it. They don’t click on it and they’re certainly not converting from it. There’s a very good chance they’re actually gonna go and go, just see your brand and go, oh, I want something from there. And they’ll go and do a search for the brand and they’ll click on a PPC ad or they’ll click on an organic search and then those guys are going, cuz we do last click attribution.

Those guys are absolutely get the benefit. They get the attribution where actually email was the one that actually drove that and. Because we are often the beginning cuz we are that push channel. So we are often the beginning of the journey. So it’s, we need to understand that even as an email that doesn’t get actioned, it still has that bridling effect still is putting you above your competitors.

And this is one of the arguments that’s often made for sending Wolf frequently and. That’s a huge topic. We probably don’t have time for it today. See, that could be an episode unto itself. Indeed. But generally speaking, when I go and do an audit of my client, of my new client, it, we will prove to them that they’re actually under mailing and that they could afford to mail more frequently and then they would make more wedding.

And that’s because of the, you are only gonna buy a. Every certain, however it is say, depending on the buying period for that particular product in your service, but the more emails that are there just means that they’re more likely to be going and looking at you when they have a need. Oh, absolutely.

Speaking about what are some of the common mistakes, Kathy, you think? People are making with email marketing and any recommendations on how to avoid some of those common mistakes alike, not sending frequently enough. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I’ll jump onto two. Two pretty major ones, very common ones.

The first one is subject lines and testing them using the open rate. It seems to be logical, right? Because we know that the subject line directly impacts whether someone’s going to open an eyeball and read that email. So we go, okay, we want to actually, that’s the metric we wanna be testing. But if you go in and have a look and, hey, this is, I call it the litmus test.

Yes, go to your database. Choose that. Find the top 10 campaigns based on open rates. Then go find the top 10 campaigns based off crate. Then go find the top 10 campaigns based on conversion, and you are gonna see there’s a very little overlap between the three of them, which means interesting, which means you are testing your subject lines based on open mates who are probably optimizing for the wrong result.

And there’s a whole heap of learnings and insights, and I’ve done gazillions of tests on all of this and I can verify that this is so there. There’s actually a really easy formula. So essentially, if you’re a publisher and you’re rewarded on opens, right? Cause that’s what you are being paid on open. Now what you need to do is do really short, generic subject lines.

Because what happens is that you are appealing then to a wide array. Wide array of people. And they’re reading whatever it is that they wanna read into it. That’s so generic and so vague. They have their own needs. They read into it cuz we’re all different. However, if you are a retailer and you are rewarded on sale, You want to drive the people that are most likely to convert and you want, don’t wanna disappoint them.

So again, if you were to do that generic one, get that many people because you’ve just said sale 25% off today. Okay, fantastic. You’re being specific, you’re saying today, but turns out you’re actually only having sale on tops, you’re not, and dresses, right? You’re not having sale on the jeans where I’ve opened it up.

Cuz I’m like, great, I could do with new jeans. I’ll get 25% of my new deals and then I open it up and then I’m disappointed and I don’t click through. Cause I don’t want top S. So the more specific you are, the more likely you’re going to be to attract the right people who are going to end up converting again.

This is a great test to be doing and it happens time and time again and we prove it over and over. And this actually comes back to. One of the, one of the things that often used to be said, short subject lines are better than long subject line. If you think about it, short is more often going to be generic and along it’s going to be more often specific, right?

So they’re saying short subject lines for open rates are better than long subject lines, which is absolutely true, but if you’re wanting clicks of conversions, more likely it’s gonna be the inverse. That’s number one. Great. How about number two? Number two. Deleting your list. Deleting your, okay.


nowadays. So this kind of thing happened because one, everyone’s incredibly fearful of the unsubscribed. Yes. Fearful. Fearful. Like you wouldn’t believe, right? No one has ever loved a present for getting too many unsubscribes.

You’ve never even received a big fine cause it’s not against your actually unsubscribes it to be embraced because there’s a couple of benefits. One looking at you as being a legitimate, good quality marketer. Cause otherwise they’re looking waste their time. They’ll just hit the, this is bad. They’ll take the easy way out.

Very rolling down, clicking that, clicking the Yes I want to, and everything like that. They’re taking their time because they respect you. So that is a really good indication. Okay. And it could just being things like your system doesn’t allow them to update their address so they have to unsubscribe and then resubscribe or something like that.

Don’t be afraid of the unsubscribes, but how this all happened was, Many years ago, one study was done of E S P, of their database, their client database, and they found out that the majority of the span called links were coming from the inactive group. It’s logical, right? So they just found that. So everyone then said, oh, we’ve got a stock mailing to the inactives.

This is from the vendor perspective, because they’re going, that means that. All these spans means that we are going to get red listed, red ips or black or something like that. We’re going to have to deal with these issues. So if we can tell our customers just not to mail to them, then we’re actually helping ourselves a lot cuz we’ve got reduced workload happen.

The, this is literally what happened and then suddenly everyone’s going. That makes sense. Methodologically, get high spam, cool paint from the inactive group. You don’t wanna have spam complaints cuz then you get bad deliverability. If you get bad deliverability, it’s gonna impact your revenue and all the rest of it.

So let’s just stop mailing our initiatives. From a logic perspective, you could buy into it. You could absolutely. You were very risk adverse. Yep.

But instead of understanding that one. And this is a really interesting one. So this is an Anex anecdotal story and I’ve heard it now quite a few times and in fact I’ve experienced it. But this one’s a really good one. So my friend, he has a his own business and every year he’ll buy about 30 computers from this particular computer.

And this was quite a few years ago from this particular computer brand, right? And every year what he would do is he had noted over the years, that’s trend. And then he knew that the bottom line that the best price was always going to be in September. So what he would do is he would just get all of the offers and everything when the time came, he would go through all of the emails, he would see all the specs, get up to speed with what’s changed over the year and everything.

Know exactly what specification and what the best price is, all that kind of stuff. Cuz he is got and done his research using all of their offers, their email. But he doesn’t open them up until August the month before the cheapest thing. One year he found that he had actually stopped getting emails.

He didn’t have all of the emails. They had said, oh, we noticed that you’re not opening your emails, and we’re unsubscribed to you. Yes. Yes. Have brand to shot themselves in the foot. We can’t assume just because they’re not opening. Or they’re not clicking that they’re not interested. It’s just the timing may not be right.

I’ve got another brand who only ever buys from Amazon once a year. That’s it. Once a year. And he’ll buy everyone’s wishlist on his family’s list. And that’s his Christmas shopping done for the year. Okay. And he never buys anything in the Amazon. So imagine if Amazon, they wouldn’t cause they’re, they do they know what they’re saying.

Did that, you’ve got to understand your business model, your customers, their buying cycles and everything. You can’t just say a blanket, this is what you should do. But there were so many people, in fact, I was in tears one day when my client, I’d been pitching for my client not to do it.

They got pressured by their E S P so much, and then also by the C-Suite who wanted to follow what the E S P did. They did it. And they got rid of something like almost 60% of their database and then they rued financially for the next two years because we don’t understand, cuz we are not doing the proper analysis, we are continually re reengaging.

Those inactives, they’re not always going to be inactive. They will come and they will buy from us again. And if they don’t then they’ll unsubscribe or get themselves off the list. But, and I think that’s the other thing too. We don’t give our consumers enough credit to actually understand that they know what they wanna do.

If they wanna get off the list, they will, they know how to do it. Absolutely. Or do we think that we have to be their saviors as though they can’t make it? A decision like that themselves. Yeah, there’s lots of evidence that actually shows that doing something like that, which everyone considers to be quite best practice.

And Neva, when GDPR came in, I know you are based in the us, it does affect you guys if you’re going to be marketing to Europe, right? Most people should have a good basic idea of what the GDPR involved. GDPR came and said, you can’t be mailing to this seller older then so on. And again, they put down like a, they weren’t this as legislation, it’s only two years.

They didn’t do anything like that. They were giving you a gate, but most people read it as being oh, two years. So if you’re a car dealership and you can’t, and that people only buy a car every three, four years, that can’t happen. And in mature it’s, and all this sort stuff too. So there’s, I think sometimes we can be our own worst enemies as because we’re wanting to be so proactively good, right?

Because we wanna get great results. And so we are thinking this is what we should do and that’s why I have a problem with. Things that are touted as being best practice. Cause to be honest, there are, to me, a best practice is something that is good for everyone within great feedback. So as, so get getting your domains authenticated.

Absolutely. Doing something like that, there might be a good, for some brands, it might be needed for them, another brands, so you have to. But anyhow, back to the gdpr. No. Yeah. You have to read in and then you have to go and make the documentation that supports why you are actually going to be emailing names that are four years old, because that’s your buying.

Okay. Yeah. So you’ve shared some amazing tips there and really stuff that I don’t even think about. Kathy, as our audience is watching and going, you know what, I need some help with my email marketing. I need some advice. How, what would you recommend as far as your services, as far as other resources, when should they reach out to a professional like yourself?

When should they start with your book? What? What would you recommend for these business owners that are doing email marketing maybe, or maybe not having good luck, but wanna. Improve what they’re doing. They wanna make it better. What would you recommend they do next? Yes. Okay, sure. Read the book. It’s actually, the audio book is on its way, as in it’s there.

And whenever they decide to decree, whenever audible decrees that it’s ready, it’ll be going live. So the books there. I write lots and lots of articles. I’m all over the place. Martek Dixie. My site, you can go to holistic cable marketing. There’s a whole he of blogs there and everything. There are some amazing people out there who are so smart.

Chad White’s, one of them. He’s also written, he’s got onto his fourth edition of Email Marketing Rules. Yeah, we just interviewed him. Great interview. Seriously. He’s awesome. And then he just writes so much as well. Then there’s. There are some really good sites. I do Marek. You’ve got some really clever people, such as Ryan Fallen.

He also writes Marek as to I and go in, and that’s a nice balance. Also tends to be between the, cause they’re Marek, so we’re talking tech, but also it’s getting that balance between the threats, the strategic side of things as well. And understanding the consumers. Yeah, there’s a bunch of resources out there.

We have also got a lot of guides and reports and things like that get downloaded on a daily basis, so you can go and check all of those out. And then of course, if you do want to reach out for any assistance. We’ve, we can do lots of things. We’ve got set rate for audits and strategies. We do consultant on head hours, which our customers love because they’re basically me coaching you.

I had one of those sessions today and I just walked away. They just said, that’s, oh my goodness, their minds were boggling with everything we talked about. So there’s those kind of things that you can be doing too, and they’re very affordable. So it’s, there’s lots of different options, but.

Definitely one of the things I would say, just because, and I have written a few articles out there about bad best practices. Okay? Yes.

Just understands, read through everything that you are reading and saying, are they starting at the right place? Is this just a tactical? And just because it’s tactical doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad thing to do, but because. We obviously need to do tactics, so I’m not antit tactics, of course I’m not.

But it’s just where you start. Is it, is that tactic being informed by the overall arching strategy that’s in place? Or is it just a random tactic and then you’ve got another random tactic and then another one, cuz it will been built at different times with different objectives in mind and everything, and they don’t actually relate to each other at all.

And so the cops gonna get a potentially a disconnected experience. Receiving all of them. Start to think about what it is that you really want, how you want to be looking, improving. Read lots of articles. Read them with a grain of salt and always say, I’m gonna test this out. Or go to some really respected authors that you and writers that you really respect, such as yourself, Jonathan, and thank you.

And. See if they actually support What also is being said because, I hate to say this, but there’s a lot of regurgitation out there that’s not necessarily regurgitation of factual. All verifiable recommendations. No, absolutely. I think that’s excellent advice and I certainly do want to encourage everybody listening to the podcast if you’ve got questions about email marketing and the best way to do it.

Reaching out to someone like Kath at holistic email marketing is absolutely a great way to begin that process. That’s her specialty, that’s what she and her team know, and I wanna just encourage you to reach out through their website or whatever if you happen to be driving. Kath, I know a lot of our listeners actually are driving while they’re listening to the podcast.

We’re gonna put the all of your links here in the podcast. But just so that everybody needs to know, I believe it’s holistic email Correct? Correct. That’s all. Yeah. Correct. So if you’re listening and driving, go to holistic email As Kath says, she’s got a number of amazing articles out there.

She updates it regularly, and don’t hesitate to reach out and find out about her consulting. I am. You’d be amazed what some time with her could do to help improve your email deliverability, your campaigns, and probably most importantly, your bottom line. Ka, we really appreciate your time today. We are obviously known as the 91 Day Success podcast.

I do have one more question for you, and I always love to hear everybody’s perspective on this, but I don’t know how things are in, in your part of the world at the moment of us being in the us, but obviously there’s sometimes the economy’s a little bit up in the air and there’s a lot of people thinking about, boy, what wonder if, what would happen if I had to start a new business?

And so the question is, if you had to start a new business, And everything in life was good. You had a home, you had your car, you had your food, but you had a thousand dollars or a thousand pounds to invest in a new business. What would you do over the first three months, the first 91 days, to build a solid foundation to build a business on over time?

Any thoughts on that? Yes, and it was interesting cause my life said that I went, oh, I probably wouldn’t do what I did. We learned some experience. But when I did it, there was like nothing there nowadays. Oh my goodness. Hey LinkedIn, just go there, connect, have conversations, and focus on building a list.

That would be my big thing. Okay. And you can do that. And that’s just with you being creative, create some content that’s really nice and appealing and consumable. And just go around the place and share it and start to build that listing. Don’t, I think you need to give yourself patience as well, but I think if you can have those conversations, I wish I had LinkedIn, seriously.

I still don’t use it like I should use, but as a platform for generating interest connections. I used to have to go and do this in person and there was twin. 30, 30 people in the room and then that was it. That was it for the night. Whereas now there’s so many things that you can be doing and even attending webinars.

The end webinars, ask questions, start getting nos, start looking to see who’s there, who else is asking questions. They just, things like this. Alliances are also a very good thing to do when you’re starting up. Make alliances. Not obviously your competitor, but of complimentary services. They can feed into you and you can feed into them and you can help each other that way.

That’s the kind of thing. So yeah, alliances and networking on LinkedIn or in person and focusing on linking and lists, growing a list organically. I think that’s great advice. And I think building a list is something that. Regardless of where you’re at in your business, if you don’t have a list and you’re not actively focused on building it, it’s time to do that cuz the best time was 10 years ago.

The next best time to start today. So get started. Get started on that list. Yeah, absolutely Kathy, and thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. I am so excited to interview you and have the opportunity to chat with you after reading your book. And just as a reminder to everybody, Kath recommended LinkedIn and that’s actually how she and I connected.

I discovered cast the book. I reached out to her on LinkedIn. She responded, and look at this. We’re having a conversation. So terrible. Don’t ever diminish that power of LinkedIn. It really is amazing. For all of you that have been with us for the rest of the podcast, we wanna say thank you. We really appreciate your time and we want to have you go Make it a great day and we’ll see you on the other side.

Thanks so much everybody. Thanks Kath.

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